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Welcome to Fertility Cafe, the home for every conversation exploring alternative family building through IVF, surrogacy, egg, sperm, and embryo donation. Our host Eloise Drane alternates episodes between educational shows, covering specific topics and guest narratives for further insight. For a mastery understanding and confidence in all things, alternative family, subscribe to Fertility Cafe.
Eloise Drane 00:27
Hey there, Welcome to Episode 87 of Fertility Cafe!
In this episode, we’ll be talking with an intended mother Arvis Smith, who gets raw and real about the emotional trials and tribulations of struggling with infertility and third-party reproduction for over 20 years. She shares some of the medical struggles she has gone through and how she learned to advocate for her mental and physical health along the way. She also talks about the ups and downs of all she and her husband Martin have experienced in their quest to create the family they have so longed for. It’s a testament to their faith, as well as their devotion to each other, that they have stayed the course and are still hopeful, even as Arvis turns 50 that their family building journey is not over yet.
Arvis is a former veterinary hospital director, whose passion for teaching and nurturing kids sparked a career pivot to teaching middle school. She lives in metro Atlanta with her husband of 23 years, Martin, I am truly happy to welcome Arvis to the show today.
Well, Arvis, thank you for joining me. I’m so grateful that you were willing to do this with me today.
Arvis Smith 01:47
Thank you, Eloise, so great to see you again.
Eloise Drane 01:51
So, let’s start with your story and sharing a little bit about yourself and your husband.
Arvis Smith 01:56
Hopefully my journey will bless someone else. As I have found that I have been blessed through everything that has happened. I am 49 years old, African American female, I will be 50 May 10.
Eloise Drane 02:12
Looking good girl, looking good.
Arvis Smith 02:16
Thank you! I’ll take that, thank you. I’ve been married for 23 years; I met my husband at a store he was managing and come to find out we had gone to the same college together but at different times. So, we got to talking and realized that we knew some of the same people. So, there was an instant connect there. When we got married, to be honest, I wasn’t even thinking about starting a family. I really didn’t even know at that time that I even want it to marry, I was just focused on going back to school finishing another degree just very much career oriented. And I realized, as I got older, things began to change. And I really started to have a deep desire to have a family and had no idea what I was up against, I thought it would just be the old traditional, you know, get married and start the process of starting a family. But that did not happen after we really got serious about you know, trying to start a family. And we realized that, you know, I was older already, at that age of late 20s, early 30s, I decided to see a specialist, and my girlfriend recommended that I go to Emory. I really didn’t know where to go, because I didn’t even know that anything was necessarily wrong. But she kind of shared with me, you know, as you get older things start happening to your body that you might need some support from, you know, a specialist. So, I made an appointment, went to Emory, everybody was great. And she said, well, you know, being that you guys have been trying for about 6 months to 8 months and you hadn’t gotten pregnant, you know, we might need to do some additional tests, and, and that’s when I was diagnosed with low ovarian reserve. At that time, I really didn’t understand you know, the term or what that really meant. But as I started to do some homework, I found out that the amount of eggs that we’re born with, they slowly diminish over time, and the largest amount of eggs are actually present when we’re in our mother’s womb. That kind of like threw me I’m like, Oh, my I’m late 20s, early 30s. You know, what does that mean for me? She says, well, it doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t have any eggs because you’re still having a regular cycle. But it just means that the quality and the quantity has diminished greatly. You know, but she said, you know, don’t be concerned. There are definitely interventions that we can do to help you. I became really connected with that doctor and I thought that she will be the one in which I will be going through all of the process, but later found out that she was leaving going to another state. So, I was like, oh, where’d where do I go now? Who, you know, who should I see? So, a lot of time passed, actually, because I did not really start the process with Emory at all, I was just kind of diagnosed there, I should say. So, I think I may have been either online or reading something in a magazine or something, and I came across Fertility for Colored Girls. And I was like, you know, what is this is this perhaps something that can help me. So I got connected with the group and found out that there were a lot of African American female like myself that were going through the same or similar situation, being in that support group, it allowed me to, not only connect with others in a comfortable space, but it allowed me to have resources that I was not aware of, I had no clue on this, what appears to be big, but small world, and so intimately connected, because everybody in that room at that time had their own journey and their own struggle. And they were able to share just so much information and knowledge with me. So, I’m pretty sure from that group, I was able to get connected with another fertility doctor, it was, I don’t know if I can say it or not, but ACRM. Atlanta Center for Reproductive Medicine, and I was there for about a year and a half, maybe two years. He also confirmed, the doctor confirmed that it was low ovarian reserve. And he recommended that we try for donor eggs, which we did. And the donor that we chose was a proven donor, she had been successful several times helping other families. So, I felt very comfortable going into the procedure. But we did three transfers, and we weren’t successful. Well, I shouldn’t say we weren’t successful, I was able to get pregnant, but I wasn’t able to sustain a pregnancy. And once you get on this roller coaster, emotional roller coaster, it’s like a constant up and down, up and down. And to be honest, we were not prepared financially for all of what it entail. But I just knew that it was something that we both wanted, so very much. So we said, Okay, we’ll just take out some money, take out a loan and get this done. Because if she’s been successful previously, you know, and she was much older, surely it’s going to work for us. But things didn’t work out. And we definitely wanted to have some more transfers, which meant additional money. And you know, before we knew it, we were well over $30,000 with nothing, you know. So, as you’re as we were going through, you’re never really looking at how much everything is costing because you’re so like it’s really going to happen this time. This is it for surely this because it feels different. It feels right, it feels like this is the time, but that time never really came. So, we decided to just stop everything from ACRM and just kind of give a break for mental purposes for financial purposes just for my overall, our overall wellbeing because the up and down the medications, the injections, you know, all of which I was very thankful to have had Martin there to help me through all of that. But we also had to go through the process of miscarriage and several, you know, several times, I do remember that there was a time when we had gotten pregnant naturally, without any intervention at all, just old school regular. Just us which I was like I couldn’t even believe that it happened but shortly after we miscarried again. So just that within itself was just, it put us actually in a very, very dark place that I have to be mindful that I can’t go back to that place again. You know, I lost a significant amount of weight. I was started to seek the help of a therapist, because it was just too much, you know? It was just, just rough. Because it’s been so long of a timeframe because this is over a 9 or 10 year period, you know, we’re just different trying different things and, you know, going seeing different doctors. When we finally said we were, you know, at our breaking point is when, I think, for short time, was about to go to Piedmont or something for additional support or something. And that’s when the doctor told me that I needed to have a DNC, which I was not on board with. But I kind of felt like, you know, this is a doctor, she is really going to do what’s best for me. But in my mind, there was still a chance, like, let’s wait before we do this DNC, because perhaps we’re rushing this procedure.
Eloise Drane 10:54
Why though the DNC like, how did that even come up?
Arvis Smith 10:58
That must have been actually, right, during the last time that I’ve gotten pregnant. I’m pretty sure that’s, that’s what it was, had to have been. Because I do remember going to the doctor checking for a heartbeat, and nothing was there. But in my mind, I was thinking, well, maybe it’s just something is delayed, or something not really wanting to grasp what was really happening, which is why I was not on board, you know, for DSC. And, you know, she was like, maybe you should get it done before the weekend, because I don’t want you to be in an uncomfortable situation if something happens, and you’re not able to get in contact with me or your primary care doctor. So, I kind of felt like I was a little forced to get it. But I was aware of what I was doing. But I just wanted to wait a little while longer. But the way it was explained to me is you know, if she didn’t hear anything, at that point, highly unlikely she was going to hear anything in two weeks. But I just wasn’t ready to wrap my head around having that procedure done. For a long time after that procedure, I kind of like, kicked myself because I’m just like, ah, you know, I made the wrong decision.
Eloise Drane 12:25
You need to give yourself some grace, girl. Because it’s not water under the bridge. You lost a child. Yeah. And you were holding on to your child, as any mother would.
Arvis Smith 12:42
The reason that I wanted to wait is because I really felt like the baby that was inside of me was saying, Mommy, don’t, don’t do this yet. I’m here. Just wait. I’m going to, I’m going to breathe. I’m going to push through. I am strong. But you know, just wait. Don’t listen to that doctor, just, I’m in here. Just, I’m going through some struggles. Just wait before you do anything. That’s what that’s what I was hearing. That is what was in my mind. So, when I did the procedure, I felt like I kind of jumped the gun, you know? I kind of jumped the gun so. Yeah, that was what it was really about.
Eloise Drane 13:29
Yeah. But unfortunately, it is where if they don’t see a heartbeat, it’s probably not going to just come out of nowhere, right? Yeah. But and I think one of the things too, that happens often is when you want something so badly, and you want a different outcome that, you, you put in your mind. And you it’s kind of like what your mind is telling you. And so, it’s like your mind and your heart. It’s not connecting. No of what you know, but what you want to believe. Mm hmm. And as many losses as you have had and as many heartbreaks as you have had. I, it’s not, like I said, it’s where you need to allow yourself some grace. Yes, yes. You know, you really do. So, you’ve gone through that. And then after you had that DNC, then what?
Arvin Smith 14:32
After the DNC, I just kind of started to wrap my head around like, this is not going to happen. We cannot just continue to use the finances that we have for something that may never happen. So, we just stopped and started to work on healing ourselves. You know, he started seeing a therapist. I started seeing a therapist, then we started going to one together, just because it was just so much of an emotional toll. I was a wreck, because it was like I couldn’t even really, it hurt me to even hear a baby cry, I would just start to break down. And then I was constantly getting invited to different baby showers and you want to be there to support but it was so hard, you know, like, you’re happy, you’re of course happy, but you’re also aching and hurting at the same time, you know, but you don’t want to make it seem like it’s an all about me moment when it’s really not. But it was just like a really weird place to be. And so, we both decided, you know, just continue with therapy and I stayed in it in the group for a while Fertility for Color Girls, and then there are always options about you know, getting a surrogate, which, you know, that of course is money, more money. There was another sister, female in a group that went through the surrogacy process, and, you know, did well, everything was it worked out well for her and her family. And she, you know, shared everything with me. But the part that was still missing for me is, you know, I still want it to experience and still do want to experience pregnancy for myself, like I want the I want the belly, I want the, the morning sickness, as crazy as it sounds, I want the, all of what that entails, that experience is something that I, I still desire. So, you know, for me, even as we talk surrogacy is not for me, you know, not for me. So, the who’s to say how I feel, you know, 2 or 3 years down the road, I honestly don’t know, then we there was always the option of adoption. Because, you know, we will see these commercials. On TV, we will see Wednesday’s Child and the state of Georgia has all these kids that needs to be adopted. So, we said, you know, let us try perhaps adopting, we went through that entire process to get our home clear, the checks and everything where they come home studies. Yeah, the home studies, I can think home studies. And there were several classes that we needed to attend, in which we attended all of them. But we got to the final part, and there was a stop, because my husband had gotten into some trouble when he was in college. And this was 30 years ago that he has, you know, several years ago gotten a pardon for and because of that, we were denied. So, we, you know, could not understand something like that, that you were literally right out of high school. We make bad decisions sometimes. And, you know, even to this day, he’s being held responsible for what happened basically as a 21-year-old kid, right? And, you know, we, we fought, we did the appeal process, but nothing ever came of it. So, now, every time I see those commercials Wednesday’s Child, I’m just like, you know, you guys are really not every case is different. And you really have to come in and get to know the family that’s looking to adopt. Because it’s not about trying to get some assistance or support from the government or anything like that, like we said, and we need to sign a waiver to not get any funds. We wish we would do that. Just allow us to even maybe get a sibling, you know, siblings, brothers, sisters something but when we went in for the appeal process, I thought the judge was going to understand because we had, you know, letters of recommendations and all the documents and his pardon and everything but he said that that was not something that he could comfortably sign off on. So, you know, over the years, I have had the opportunity to meet several different DFCS manager and you know, social workers. But what we have found is at the end of the day is the judge that has to make the final decision as to whether or not he or she feels comfortable signing off saying that we’re suitable, you know, suitable parents, intended parents. So, for us to go through that process, in that courtroom in front of the judge, and in front of those people and make Martin have to rehash what happened 30 years ago, you know, it was humiliating, why he did it for me, he did it for us. Like he started crying, and I, of course, started crying. And, you know, which kind of set us back mentally because I don’t want him to have to keep, you know, because we had to do this in front of the board of directors for DFCS. Tell the story. Then he had to, he had to do it again, in front of the judge, and in front of all those people, you know, they were in there for different, you know, different things or whatever. But just to be that transparent in a court like that, that was a little uncomfortable. But you know, he did, but it was just, it was just a lot. It was a lot. So, I think before we tried DFCS, we try private adoptions, and we met with an agency and they were like, $20,000, I’m like, what in the world is all of his money for? What, you know, what is it? So, I think around somewhere around that time, maybe a couple of years prior to, I decided to just do something different with my life or career change, because I had been working for over 20 years in veterinary medicine. As you know, technician, nutrition, in just different roles. That’s what I had been formally trained in. And it was something that I really enjoyed. But I decided, you know, let me try something different. And I had friends to tell me, you know, you should consider teaching. And I’m like, no, I don’t think, I don’t think I’ll be a good teacher. But I know oftentimes, my friends would asked me come to their classroom during Career Day and speak to students about what I do. And I would always do it year after year, several different schools, and they were like, you’re really good, you know. I said, well, let me try. Because I know I really enjoy science, because that’s all that I really know being that that’s what my degree was in. Let me try. So long story short, I did a career change, 6 years ago, I became a teacher. And I do love it. And realized that just me being in the classroom with kids like, it’s, it feels good. They are very well at least the district and school that I’m in is, is the title one school and the students are in need of quite a few things. You know, some, you know, the home situation isn’t that great. So, you know, they come to me for just different things. They need snacks, they need to talk, they want to cry, they need to laugh. They need a band-aid. And I mean, I teach sixth grade, you would think like, they don’t need as much but yeah, they do. And I’m finding that as time passes, like they’re in need, and I’m in need as well. So, it’s definitely a, it’s a beautiful, beautiful relationship. But, um, it, it keeps me content. Because, um, you know, they, I’ve had a couple of students that actually, you know, call me, the mom away from home or auntie or something like that, which I’m okay with that. Definitely. Okay. You know, that’s where I am for now. And it’s helping me, you know, is healing, is healing. So.
Eloise Drane 24:35
Where would you say your faith is in all of this?
24:38
Um, my faith. I have definitely been up and down, because I don’t always do what I’m supposed to do. I don’t always do my devotions or my prayers. But I know in every instance when I look back, every single situation that I’ve gotten myself in, he always gets me out of. But there’s always a lesson for me to learn. Whatever that lesson may be, you know, I know that I’m going to come out on top, and I know that I’m going to win. But it’s just like, getting to that point is always, for me, it seems like just very, they’re very hard, you know. But I was just telling Martin the other day, everything that is on my plate and its delt to me is, it’s a big, it’s a big, it’s something big is always huge, you know, as we were finally deciding to get into the point where we were going to stop, you know, with the treatments and everything. That’s when he was diagnosed with stage three cancer that had spread, spread to his lymph nodes and other organs. And, you know, that’s, that’s a lot at, at the time, he had not turned 50, he was 48 to 49. So, you know, as we were going through that, and he was going through treatment, and before, prior to starting radiation, I remember having a conversation, we having a conversation with his oncologist about, hey, this is what we were doing prior to him getting this diagnosis, then he said, well, you definitely want to consider maybe freezing some sperm, because, you know, it’s not really it’s not going to be viable after he goes through this. So, we did not do freezing. But I think we had, he definitely had some testing done, you know, everything was just kind of like all dependent upon something else, you know, make sure you do this. Because if you don’t, this may have been A, B, or C, or it was, it was just always, and even today, even so today’s just always a lot, you know, to take in consideration is just, you know. Who would think that trying to start a family is just so hard, you know. I, these conversations that I’m having now are not conversations that I had when I was in my early 20s. Because it wasn’t, it yeah, and because my mom had me at 44 or 45. I thought that, okay, I should be fine. I don’t, I didn’t think that I would ever be in a situation like this. Now, I’m talking to everybody, you know, the therapist that I’m seeing now, I shared with her everything, the journey and everything. And she was just sharing with me that her daughter is in her late 20s. And she was not even aware that there was even an option like freezing your eggs. So, you know, I said, you know, I don’t want her to be in a situation that I’m in right now. So, if there is a chance, perhaps you should consider that for her. I mean, start having that conversation now. Because I know she’s wanting to finish school and you know, maybe get an advanced degree or something like that. But go ahead and have this done now. So that if and when that time comes, you are sitting on the right side of the table. Yeah. You know, yeah.
Eloise Drane 28:39
And the thing about it is, is, you know, we’re having these conversations right now of what people have endured, and, you know, maybe have come on the other side, and, or maybe not have come out and had a good outcome. But we can’t forget our children and our grandchildren and great grandchildren, because what we are seeing is that infertility is increasing at a rapid rate. And now it’s now 1 in 6 people are dealing with infertility, you know, just a couple of years ago was 1 of 8 before that it was 1 in 10. And it’s the pool is shrinking. It is and it’s unfortunate that insurance companies and society isn’t paying attention to something that is going to become so significant of a problem. And it’s already a significant problem. And they’re not listening, and it’s just like you need to start listening. And as far as even the foster care system, you know the foster care system was not created for people to come and adopt that wasn’t the purpose of the foster care system. Initially, foster care system was put there in place to reunite families with their children. And then when it came to be that parents could not be reunited or they were not qualified enough to be reunited with their children. Then children were being put up for adoption. But it frustrates me when I hear people say, oh, well, why don’t you just adopt, there’s so many children out there and you just adopt. And there’s like, if you only knew the hurdles, and the issues and the things that someone has to go through, in order to actually be able to adopt. It’s not that simple. Not at all. And that I’ve told you this numerous times, and I’m going to tell it to you again, is I know that I just, I told you, I feel it in my bones. Of that, even though I know it’s been a hurdle. And I know it’s been a struggle. But I, I wholeheartedly believe that God has a plan for you. And for you, and Martin, and I wholeheartedly believe, you know, I think sometimes we have, when we start thinking about, well, we want to be parents, or we want children or whatever we, we create these visions in our head of how it’s supposed to be. And sometimes, you know, we don’t, we can’t foresee what God has in the future and why he does the things that he does. But I also feel that he chooses who parents are, for each, each soul that comes into this world, he selects who they are, who the who the parents is going to be for that particular child. And perhaps in you know, I don’t know, because I’m not God, and nor am I going to sit here and play. But I do feel, though that he has someone just for you. And that maybe this delay is because your chosen child was not the time for him or her to be here yet. But it’s coming. And you know, and I tell you this all the time that I pray for you, and I pray for Martin, and I know where your heart is, and I know what it is that you, you know, hope for and pray for and believe for and girl I’m standing with you, and I hope every single listener, we have standing with you because God says where two or more together, he is present as well. And so, I’m, you know, all the prayer warriors I’m calling on to, to start praying over you and, and Martin in believing for this. But do you want to share where you are now?
Arvis Smith 32:39
Where I am now is after, I guess maybe I don’t know, 2 or 3 years of just no movement at all, no, nothing like just going back to what we considered our normal life. I received a phone call that there was a family that wanted to bless us with donor embryos. And it just, I immediately got butterflies in my stomach and just all giddy and nervous and happy and scared all at the same time. Like so many emotions. I of course said yes. Not immediately, because I was scared. But we, after I talked to Martin again, you know, and assured him that I’m not gonna go back to that dark place. Like I really have a grip on this as best as can be, you know, because I know what to expect now. I know that it can go either way. He was on board and said, you know, one last try. One last try. So that is where we are right now. And you know, even with that process, it has just, it has been a process, a whole another process, just with paperwork, and just appointments because of my age and just a lot, you know, but I have been very blessed to have the support group that I have that even when I want to give up. That’s what I’m saying. But that’s not what’s in my heart. You know, sometimes I get so frustrated because something was denied or something was delayed, or I don’t want my donor family to be inconvenienced any more than what they already have been. And that’s in my mind. They may I know that they’re rooting for us. Like I know that they’re our cheerleaders, but you know how you just don’t want to inconvenience anymore. So sometimes I’m just like, let’s just stop because it’s just too hard. But then, when I get to feeling like that Almost immediately a door opens or an email is sent or something comes to just make me feel like okay, don’t give up yet like, you know, because this within itself has really just, it can it literally came out of nowhere just like a blessing. really unexpected blessing. And I’m
Eloise Drane 35:21
Because God got your back, yes, he got your back. And he’s telling you don’t give up, I’ve seen what’s been happening. I know, I was I knew before you knew. So don’t give up, I got your back. So that’s what he’s saying to you. And so, like I told you, I’m believing for this. And I know, I know your journey. So, this is going to happen, this is gonna happen. And like I said, hopefully, to our lips to God’s ears, you know that he listens, and that this will happen. So what, what do you want to leave as kind of a final share with the listeners?
Arvis Smith 36:03
Knowledge is definitely power, the more you know, the more equipped you are to not only help yourself, but to help others. In this journey, you really have to, if you’re if you’re comfortable, it’s best to be as transparent as possible. And share, share what you have, you know, just try to be a blessing to somebody else. Just always be good, if be good at all times. Because at the end of the day, God really knows your heart. And umm, it sometimes you really have to be careful about who you share your journey with because everybody is not, they don’t understand. You know, and sometimes I get so caught up in me wanting to share with everybody share with the world. But then I can get some, you know, sad as like, you’re literally 50, why are you even trying to do this? And then that kind of puts a damper in my spirit. So, I am now mindful about who I share this with because it’s not for everybody. It’s not for everybody.
Eloise Drane 37:16
And nor can anybody tell you when it’s your time and when it’s not, you know. So, bye. But I’m, you know, I’m your cheerleader. So oh, we’re gonna you know, we’re just gonna leave it at that. And we’re going to just continue praying and believing that your time will come, and, but I definitely wanted to share your story because I think often, you know, whenever people have podcasts or people tell stories, you know, yeah, there was a struggle, but there was always a happy ending at the end. And sometimes, sometimes there isn’t a happy ending, sometimes you’re still in the waiting process. Sometimes it still hasn’t happened. And maybe it may never happen. We don’t know when we don’t know why or whatever. And there’s all different kinds of walks of life and different experiences. And one thing about infertility, there’s no two people that are alike.
Arvis Smith 38:19
No, two people that are like, and like you said, it may happen for us, it might not happen. But at the end of the day, this conversation is definitely going to bless somebody, it’s going to be one piece of information that somebody did not know about, you know, it’s gonna help somebody. So that within itself brings me peace, because I’m definitely in a better place. I’m grateful for everyone that I have met on this journey. Definitely, definitely grateful for you. Like, I love you, you know that? Yes, you know this, and just you, I, you is like Superwoman. Seriously, no, seriously, I know that there’s a lot that goes on behind, behind the scenes, behind closed doors that you keep from me, because I don’t need to know. I can’t process it, don’t need to know for whatever reason, and a lot is on your shoulders. And I’m so grateful for you. You have blessed and continue to bless so many people in so many ways. You have no idea. None. None, and every night you should sleep just a little bit better knowing that you made a difference because you really, really, really do. You were meant for this, nobody else and that’s major, that really is. Girl, you’re not supposed to make me cry on my own podcast. That’s the connections that you made with families. I would not know even where to start. What, what, what, what? What was? What am I supposed to do? What was I supposed to do? Don’t know didn’t have a clue. A lot of the testing, a lot of the packages of information to read, I don’t know what that means. I solely depend on you. If you say, do this, do this, and do this. Done. No question no second, that’s powerful.
Eloise Drane 40:35
Well, I’m not gonna take credit because you and you know how I am with my faith. And you’re a vessel. When I tell you, I leave it all up to God, I really do. And I’m not gonna sit here and take any credit for any of it. Because there are days when I come in, to this office, and I’m like, God, I don’t even know what to do. I have no idea. Like, this is in your hands. You need to, you need to work this out. And he does every single time. And so, you know, I know there are people who are listening who are not believers, or whatever, maybe they are or whatever, it doesn’t matter. I know for me what it is. But I also know my faith is to have my heart open to everybody in anybody. I’m not going to, you know, I don’t think I’m better than anybody. And I just do as I as I’m told to do, by my God.
Arvis Smith 41:36
Yeah. Thank you for being obedient.
Eloise Drane 41:38
Yeah. So, for girl, I love you. And we were gonna come back on here, and we’re going to have a whole different story.
Arvis Smith 41:52
Definitely, definitely, definitely.
Eloise Drane 41:55
Alright so, that’s how we’re gonna end this podcast. You guys come back to season six to hear the update from the story.
Thank you so much for listening. If you found this episode helpful, please rate Fertility Cafe on your favorite listening platform and share this episode with anyone you think could benefit from hearing it.
Tune in next week for another amazing episode on Fertility Cafe.
Until then, remember, “love has no limits – neither should parenthood.”
