Eloise Drane
Andrea Syrtash
00:00
Welcome to Fertility Cafe, the home for every conversation exploring alternative family building through IVF, surrogacy, egg, sperm, and embryo donation. Our host Eloise Drane alternates episodes between educational shows, covering specific topics and guest narratives for further insight. For a mastery understanding and confidence in all things, alternative family, subscribe to Fertility Cafe.
Eloise Drane 00:30
Hey there, welcome to Episode 91 of Fertility Cafe.
In this episode, we’ll be talking about what it’s like finding out you are faced with infertility including what it’s like processing that information and moving forward seeking answers and treatment.
The industry talks a lot about IVF, egg donation and surrogacy as a means to the end goal of having a family. But many people skip over one of the hardest parts in the process, learning that you have infertility issues.
Rather than allowing individuals and couples the time, space, and compassion to fully process this information. Most professionals charge right ahead into solutions, options, and next steps. But what is the real toll of finding out you have infertility issues? How do you adjust mentally, emotionally, and socially? Within your family and friend groups? How does it affect your identity, self-worth and vision for your life?
My guest on today’s show is a relationship expert who inadvertently also became an infertility expert. Andrea Syrtash is the founder of Pregnantish, the first media platform dedicated to helping people navigate fertility treatments, and infertility. A regular on-air personality and the host of Pregnantish podcast, Andrea has hosted TV shows for Oprah’s OWN, Discovery and Fox and is the author of He’s Just Not Your Type (and That’s A Good Thing) and Cheat On Your Husband (with Your Husband).
I love her relatable relationship writing. And I think it’s fantastic that Andrea is committed to breaking the taboo of infertility and elevating the conversation about what it takes for so many people out there to start a family. So, I’m very excited to welcome Andrea to the show today.
Andrea, it is so great to have you here.
Andrea Syrtash 02:28
I’m so happy to be here and talk to you again. It’s been a while.
Eloise Drane 02:31
It has, it definitely has. So first I’d love to start with your story and if you don’t mind sharing a little bit about your journey.
Andrea Syrtash 02:41
Absolutely. I usually joke when someone asks me how long is your show? Because it was, it was, I mean, the short version ish, 8 years to baby about 18 fertility treatments, lots of meds and shots. But even more Kleenex as it was heartbreaking. And I became a mother thanks to my first cousin, Alanna, who was my angel on Earth as my gestational surrogate in year eight. And now I have a four-year-old named Arielle, who’s my pride and joy and she was frozen in time for a couple years waiting for a uterus a healthy uterus to bring her into the world.
Eloise Drane 03:22
Wow. So, would you mind kind of sharing your story a little bit? I mean, I know that you had to endure a lot, which I know also impacts your body and your mind and all of the things so, would you mind sharing a little bit about that?
Andrea Syrtash 03:44
Yeah, my background, you know, you may not know, I’m a relationships author. And I’ve spent my whole career helping people navigate relationship challenges. And I always say infertility is the biggest relationship challenge you never knew you’d have. When sex does not make baby. And it doesn’t for a lot of people. It impacts every single thing your, your, body, your bank account, your mental health, everything. And it’s a marathon of course, I had many times I always give the image of a fertility treatment patient. You know, you you’re running on this marathon, but within a real marathon, you know where the finish line is. And in this marathon, it’s you just keep running and you fall over exhausted, you dust yourself off, you’re bruised, you keep running and it’s exhausting. And you don’t when you don’t know where that finish line is. It’s really hard sometimes to keep running. So that’s how I describe it. I though often say to our audience at Pregnantish, I really believe that your 6 was easier for me than your 1 or 2 of the struggle to conceive because after a few years of it, I started to open up to the possibility of it may not be my body. It may not be my egg. In the end. It was my egg and my husband’s sperm. It was not my body who carried the baby. But I did even think like that in the first couple years of trying. It was kind of like when sex doesn’t did not make baby. I thought IUI was the answer than I thought IVF was the answer and every roadblock just kept coming in front of us. And it was exhausting.
Eloise Drane 05:16
Yeah, and you along the way dealt with several pregnancy losses. And I know it’s not something that society really talks about. And it’s something that’s still very taboo and hush-hush. So, how, what would you share on that in your perspective on even for someone that is and has dealt with pregnancy loss?
Andrea Syrtash 05:41
It doesn’t help that it’s common actually. It’s very painful to share that it’s common, that too many people are suffering, this devastating experience is really sad. But I share that to say you’re so not alone. And what one thing that I realized, and both through pregnancy loss, and even embryo transfer loss was devastating after spending sometimes, you know, saving for the treatment, putting everything into that. And then that was an extreme loss as well. But I started to really get to this point. And then there was a lot of grief for babies that I hadn’t met. But I knew I loved where I had to find rituals at that time to honor those babies, those beings, that those things that I loved, that I never met, but that were deep inside of me in my heart. And I’ll never forget, in year six of this process, someone suggested I light a candle for every baby, I thought I’d been in the six years, my bedroom was full of light, and candles. And it was a very powerful image because I looked around and it was so beautiful and so heartbreaking. And I said a wish a prayer, sent love and said, you know, there’s a lot of love in this room. But I’m going to move on and meet my baby. And it’s not you. But I love you, you know, I just said my own little message. And that was very cathartic as a ritual, because it allowed me to grieve, to create the space to grieve, because life just keeps moving fast. And you’re not talking about it with your boss or your friends all the time or at a dinner party. It’s like, right, but you need somewhere to release this grief. So, creating those moments, sometimes I always tell our audience at Pregnantish to like, whatever you can do, to hold the space to honor the babies who love but didn’t meet is a great thing. It’s important.
Eloise Drane 07:46
And it sounds like you were definitely bound and determined to have a baby. So, let’s talk about your cousin who became your gestational surrogate, and how that came about?
Andrea Syrtash 08:02
Well, again, the short version. Because once we knew in year five or six, a doctor said, Stop using your embryos. I think you’re making good embryos. And until we genetically test them, we can’t tell if it’s your uterus or the egg or the sperm, let’s just test the embryos. Once we tested and we had healthy embryos, that’s when he said go to surrogacy, and I was like, Oh, easy. That’s what we needed. Nothing’s easy about that, as you know. Yeah. We had a couple of years of bad hiccups with the one agency I wouldn’t, I won’t mention, that’s not a one I would recommend with two people leave us, and one left us at a very late stage after we had negotiated the terms, 5 months of working with this GC to align, sending her kid birthday gifts and in touch she was we had a relationship and she I to this day, she goes to me, I don’t know what happened. Our transfers coming up or waiting for the last, you know, signature on the legal paperwork. And all the medical tests had been done. Everything had been done. And to this day, I don’t know where she is. And I wished her well, but it felt like another miscarriage. Oh my gosh. So, my cousin, who sent me a New Year’s message in early January 2018. Hey, Happy New Year. How are you doing? And what do you want to know the truth? I can’t get out of bed. This woman’s have left me and I’m, I’m exhausted already. I can’t go through this anymore. Actually, I told her husband this and he told his wife, my cousin. Oh, my goodness, Sandra’s GC just disappeared. And my cousin texted me that night and said have you ever thought of a family member to help? And that’s how this all started. I would never have asked her. I would never have imagined she would have offered. She’s an amazing person. But I would never have asked someone to do this for us. She was compelled to offer and that’s when my life changed overnight.
Eloise Drane 10:00
You know, but I hear so many people say I would never ask anybody. But I think sometimes though you take that ability from somebody, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to come right out and ask. But I think also being able to give someone that ability to say, hey, I’m willing to do this for you, even though you may not come out and say you’re asking, but at least the fact that you were willing to share your story, and you were truthful with how you were actually feeling and knowing that that was such a significant loss. And I think the other point to your story as well, is even though you match and even though you think that everything is in line, and everything is going to happen, sometimes it does it.
Andrea Syrtash 10:49
And that’s an under told story of this journey for both intended parents and carriers and donors, like. Nothing is a straight line, when you’re creating babies and families through science and technology and humans. Nothing is a straight line. And that’s why we call it Pregnantish. There’s a lot of ish, there’s a lot of magic in the “ish” I always say like, there really is because the unexpected can be so beautiful. Sometimes, like this was totally unexpected when my cousin texted me, but the ish can also be full of heartache and bumps that wow, I didn’t know that was part of the plan or the journey. And I think like it’s the biggest test of resilience to make a baby this way. But once I got that text, I will say Eloise, like it was so interesting how much I knew now I’m gonna be a mom like it in the text came through it felt it deep in my heart. Like this was the I would never have wished our journey or anyone’s hard journey on anyone. But in that moment, I was like, wait, this actually makes sense that my cousin, we look alike. We’ve always been called like, twin cousins. Not that you have to look like your surrogate at all. But like we’ve always been similar beings. Our dads escaped Hungry together. And you’ve, I know you’ve read the article in People Magazine about us like my dad was born in hiding during World War II at the end of World War II in Budapest to my grandmother delivered my dad underground. As a Jew you know, you didn’t want to be caught, his grandparents were killed, like they a lot of family were killed. And my cousin’s late now late father was younger than my dad and when he escaped communism, in Hungary in 1956, my dad was a young kid, he was 13 he carried my uncle, Alana’s dad on his back out of the country on foot. And, again, past a lot of dead bodies and a lot of trauma. But when Alanna offered, I said to her, it’s, it’s amazing that my dad carried your dad on his back. And now you’re you got my back. Like, this is a circle of life story. And she said something really powerful, which again, isn’t that people article, but she said, this is an opportunity for me to help try to rebuild our family. Because our grandmother that we shared, my dad’s mother had so much trauma lost so much, she lost two baby boys lost so much family, and was traumatized by that. And my cousin was like, let’s, let’s, do this together to start like a new chapter of our family tree. And I just knew it was right. It was like, wow, this is powerful. So yeah, it’s the greatest thing. And Arielle, you know, is named after our grandmother now. Not the name Arielle. But she has another name that is named after my grandmother, Judith. And yeah, she’s with us. And it’s great. It’s amazing.
Eloise Drane 13:51
And you know, I mean, we started talking before we, I started recording, of just how things are supposed to happen exactly, in, what, how things happen is exactly how it’s supposed to happen.
Andrea Syrtash 14:04
And that, by the way, when people used to say that to me, I want to slap them because it’s like, I’m suffering. Don’t tell me that. But now, no, I’ve always felt that way. In fact, you know, when early on in the journey, people kept saying, you’re gonna have the child you’re meant to have you have to hold on to that. That was helpful for me, actually, because I’ll never know all the babies I never met that I loved but this daughter I have of mine was so worth the wait. Like, she’s amazing. So yeah, if we if any other thing had worked, I wouldn’t have Arielle. That’s a weird thing to think about.
Eloise Drane 14:42
Yeah. So you’ve given some excellent TED Talks and written so much about relationships. Curious about talking about the unsexy part of trying to conceive and how that may impact your relationships.
Andrea Syrtash 14:59
Yeah, I write about that a lot, because it’s not sexy. Trying to, well. So, love-making a baby-making right away are different whether or not you’re struggling. It’s just a different vibe, right when you’re tracking or ovulation and you’re trying to get it on as in a heterosexual couple like that is already not that sexy. But it could still be romantic because we’re gonna be parents. But when you strip away the romance, and you’re now on hormones, you’re now going through like trying to recover after the grief of a failed embryo transfer, miscarriage, anything this community faces. And then you’re told by your doctor to have intimacy, and it is hard. So, one of my biggest tips for couples struggling to conceive is to remember your lovers and partners, not just people trying to make a baby, and just hook up when you’re not fertile is really important. Like so to really like say, Oh, guess what, I want to see you what I’m not fertile. I want to have a date night when there’s no chance. Because then we alleviate some pressure. And we find that space to see each other in a way. That’s so important that gets lost. So that’s one of my biggest pieces of advice, but also to like, give yourself some grace. When you’re like bloated on the meds, stuff. Like don’t kick yourself if you’re not in the mood. I mean, come on, like that. If you need to, like pull up with some french fries and a Netflix and chill, go for it. I mean, I don’t think you need to turn your sexy on all the time, even if you feel that pressure.
Eloise Drane 16:33
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And I think too, that a lot of times, women are the ones who kind of bear like all of the weight of holding on to that whole infertility umbrella, right? And one of the things that I like in Pregnantish is that you’ve incorporated men and their experience with infertility as well. Can you talk about what men go through in the male role and infertility issues that we do not hear about really ever?
Andrea Syrtash 17:07
Thank you for asking that. It’s obviously as a woman, I can talk about it as a storyteller. And as a journalist, I’ve interviewed so many men at this point in navigating this both with partners when they’re not the ones with the medical infertility diagnosis, and those who have male factor infertility, I’ve interviewed both. And men are 100% in on this journey, and often left out of the stories, and we made a commitment day one of Pregnantish. So, we were the first media site in the category. So, we’re the first platform saying, you’re not, we’re not going to be like, when we launched Pregnantish, the only place to find infertility content and modern family-building content, beyond like clinics and WebMD, and RESOLVE, would, all great places but as a media platform, the only place to find it was parenting outlets, which is very triggering when you’re going through this. So, we dedicated the space to like people for whom sex does not make baby but they want to have babies, singles, couples, LGBTQ and men. We’re in our welcome video, as we’re singles, as we’re so many people who are left out of who needs to be served in this. And we also made a commitment back in 2016 – 2017, to diversity and storytelling. Way before I will say it was in vogue to do this because it is the right thing to do. But we did this from consciously, intentionally for the last 6, 7 years. Because we did not want the same image of what infertility looks like. That we had seen all over, you know, morning shows, by the way, I’ve been on many of these morning shows, I’m glad they’re running any content, so it’s no disrespect to them. But there’s so many people and I know Eloise, you’re passionate about that too, that you need to serve who are touched by this. And so that was part of our commitment. Men are writing us a lot of dms, today on the Pregnantish podcast actually, I know this will air later, but I will say like we did a whole spotlight this week on men, on male factor infertility, and we’re running the story of a couple. She’s a Paralympic champion in a wheelchair people assume, her name is Mallory Wagaman. People assume she’s infertile because she’s in a wheelchair. She’s on the US swim team in the Paralympics. But it’s her husband who is able bodied, quote unquote, and is the one who had the infertility issue. So, we have to turn on its head that men are not impacted. Yes. So that’s important. But you know, I think everybody there’s so many left out people. currents are left out like my mother admitted to me one day, like she was mourning when I was losing. She’d want to tell me this, of course, but she wanted to be a grandmother. It was heartbreaking to watch me who she loved him, my husband who she loves suffering. And she felt like there was no one to talk to and her friends circle because they all had grandchildren. Like, look, we don’t know what they were going through behind the scenes. But this extends to everybody in your village like everybody.
Eloise Drane 20:07
And extends to everybody in your village, if you’re also willing to share, I think. The other thing too is, is that there’s still this stigma regarding infertility and people not willing to share what they’re going through. And rightfully so, you don’t necessarily have to share. But in that same vein, it’s also of if you don’t share, how do you release? You can just, going to keep it bent up. If you don’t share? If you don’t express? If you don’t release that pain, it’s going to stay in there and fester.
Andrea Syrtash 20:46
There’s an old expression I always like, which is “a few buried secrets, you bury them alive.” And what happens is they come out and they manifest in much less healthy ways, sometimes. So, grief is a hard thing to face. But if you face it in a way that honors your experience, and sharing might not mean broadcasting it on Instagram, right? Share it, right? It could mean like telling a close friend, telling a stranger who you just trust, like it doesn’t matter who it is. But I totally agree with you not to keep this bottled up with everybody because that can be suffocating.
Eloise Drane 21:24
Yeah, for sure. So, can we talk about Pregnantish and in talk about, I mean, you’ve shared why you created it. But when somebody goes there, what is it that they can expect to receive from it?
Andrea Syrtash 21:39
Oh, that’s a nice question. I mean, I think like when we launched what I want, I would answer it differently. Because when we launched, all I was looking for was premium content. That was fact-check that was written with professional editors and writers in our network. And my video team comes from I used to host for the Oprah network in Canada, like they come from like, great media backgrounds. And I was like, we need to elevate the storytelling. That was my mission number one, and promote education destigmatize through storytelling. But what’s come out of it is this vibrant, robust community of people on this journey. And also providers, we serve a lot of providers, health care providers, who are just as committed, as I know you are Eloise, to creating these healthy babies, and being part of the village. And we can’t make a baby without you guys. So, like being, our next phase of Pregnantish is bridging the gap between patients and providers. We’re starting a national survey at the, in the next month or so. We ran probably we think the largest study ever on patient retention a few years ago, on why patients leave or stay with a fertility clinic. I’ve spoken at many fertility conferences on this, we were published in the Journal of Human Reproduction. So, it’s pretty cool for us to be scientifically published. But beyond just like the bragging rights of that, what, what, that really showed us was, oh, my gosh, this is a pain point, people are dying to get their voices out, we need to like beef up our insights here, we need to do more research to really reflect the voice of today’s patient and provider and to bridge the gap. We, we are making a baby together. We’re on the same side. Whenever I used to coach couples, I would say it’s not us versus them. It’s not you versus him. You shouldn’t win an argument and feel good about that. You’re on the same team. Yes, yes. So as people on the same team, we need to bridge this gap. And sometimes it’s really a communication issue, where a patient might feel like the provider doesn’t care. We know they care. We know that this is not why you’re being underserved. Sometimes it’s moving so fast. The big business of fertility sometimes is moving so fast. And sometimes it is transactional. Let’s be honest. There’s a lot of money in this field. And some people are not as I always joke, like it sounds like I’m on The Bachelor, some people are not in it for the right reasons. That’s right. Right. And so, we need to bring the humanity back to the making human process. And we’ll do that through data storytelling, research and community and advocacy. And I’m a relationship. You know, at the end of the day, Pregnantish is a relationship platform that has other capabilities. We are the relationship stakeholders in this category. We feel and, and there’s a lot of work to be done there, so.
Eloise Drane 24:29
Yeah, there is and I’m glad very happy to hear that you guys are working on that because one of the common themes that has been happening over and over and over again, even with what we’re experiencing at Family Inceptions is parents that are talking about their patient experience and the lack of quite honestly patient experience and people wanting to jump ship from one location to another location and, and why they want to, they don’t feel like they’re being taken care of. They don’t feel like they’re being heard, they don’t feel like they are getting the actual quality of service that they really deserve. And you know, when we sit here and we talk about, you need to advocate for yourself, and you need to speak up for yourself, and you need to and so patients are starting to do that.
Andrea Syrtash 25:25
And that’s wonderful news. And I totally agree with you. It, we did the survey reaching over 1000 patients 33 years old was the average age of the survey participant and had gone to so many clinics over a number of years. And we know clinical outcomes probably aren’t as great when you keep popping around. First of all, you lose time, you’re now working with someone who’s trying to catch up and do a protocol and doesn’t know you yet, like a lot of what they’re doing in art is art. Like if a good provider is doing art, you know, tweaking, not all providers do that. But it’s hard when people are jumping around so much. I went to so many doctors over my 8 years like. So, we don’t want that and 49% of respondents in our survey left because of relationship themed issue. Not because, because the treatment didn’t work. That’s fascinating. That’s why we want to create change to improve this gap. There shouldn’t be a gap. And I think until the big business of fertility gets that, we’re gonna have a problem. Because, you know, the doctors, the nurses, the embryologist all these people are there for beautiful reasons. Like a lot of like you Eloise all of these people in the industry. Got here because in your heart you felt you can make a positive difference. And it was core to who you are and your values, your identity. And then there’s like certain people who have come in who just sniffer money trail. Yeah, and I get it. It’s lucrative, right? But it’s short sighted for the industry who comes from that to not realize that the patients’ providers are going to start to feel burnt out when they’re treated like a number a not like a human, it’s really problematic. So, right. I know, we both feel strongly about that.
Eloise Drane 27:13
Yeah, and not only that, they’re not being treated like a human. But at the end of the day, what you’re coming to those professionals are for the most important thing, in most important being in your life. That’s right, knowing that that is also not paramount in their minds, on your behalf can be quite frustrating.
Andrea Syrtash 27:34
Absolutely. And you know, in terms of in you, of course, at Family Inceptions, you’re working with not only intended parents, but you’re working with people helping serve the intended parents. Also, they’re misunderstood. We’re our next study, we’re really looking at third-party reproduction in our national survey coming up on the journey, because they’re sometimes also treated in a transactional way. So, to make the decision to be a donor, a surrogate to make the decision to undergo those services, as an intended parent, you’re not buying a cupcake. And that’s why we say that, like, it is not an easy jump for people. Now it might be in their hearts to do these things. But there is a very emotional, spiritual, sometimes financial journey, and serving the whole human and that will make for a better relation for everyone. So, I really believe data will wake up certain players, because without the data, like we could say this till we’re blue in the face, but once we show no actually you’re gonna lose someone because of this. Yep. And that starts to click and oh, yeah, now I’m losing money. Not just the right thing to do.
Eloise Drane 28:53
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, exactly. So, my final question, which kind of just alluding to what you just said, I’ve read that you have said that infertility is not just a medical journey. It’s also an emotional, relational, financial, physical, and spiritual one. How has this has been a spiritual journey for you?
29:15
Well, definitely what, what, I shared about my cousin was extremely spiritual to feel a connection to my, our grandmother was to me, sparked something that was deep in my heart that I hadn’t consciously thought about, like, the trauma my grandmother had over babies was real delivering my dad underground and hiding scared she was going to be caught and murdered. I mean, talk about trauma. I can’t even imagine that. So, I think this spiritually has connected me to my family. I think spiritually it’s connected me to something outside my own experience. I often joke, my story is boring compared to the, all the stories we serve up Pregnantish are so fascinating. And, you know, on the podcast, we tell these incredible paths of parenthood stories every time. And my jaw is on the floor. I’m just constantly like, this is such extraordinary content, and very meaningful content. And to me, yeah, this, this has really allowed me to look beyond my own experience and see how connected we all are through this, how these stories can help others feel less alone. When we launch Pregnantish Eloise, people told me to hire like, now it would be chat GPT. But like, don’t write real articles, don’t write real essays, hire cheap labor overseas, I was like, guys, you don’t understand, for me content, and what you’re doing on the podcast as well. Content is the pathway to education, to community, to advocacy. Content is a pathway to connecting dots for people who are overwhelmed. If you’re undervaluing content, you don’t get it. And if content is also served in a way that’s sloppy, and transactional, and you’re not going to capture this reader and their deepest pain point and their deepest dream. And so, it’s very spiritual for me.
Eloise Drane 31:20
And content is something that your daughter, and my daughters and other people’s sons and in other people’s children, they will one day potentially need this information. So why not use your pain to be able to try to hopefully prevent them from having to endure the same thing. So that content that we’re putting out right now is not just for the here and now. Granted, things will change and it will evolve. But at least we’re giving them a foundation of where to start from. Because for a lot of people that were dealing with infertility years and years ago, like you said, why you started Pregnantish is there was nothing, there was nothing for you to seek out to gain any kind of knowledge from and you had to figure it out on your own. And I’m sure every parent doesn’t want their children to endure what they had to endure.
Andrea Syrtash 32:20
Absolutely agree. And I think you know, the other day on Pregnantish , we shared the Empire State Building, where I live in New York, orange for infertility awareness. And it was so emotional for the community to see it this iconic building, recognizing this – was very moved to our community in ways it’s been shared now over 200 times across the world, in the last 48 hours, from Brazil and Asia. Like we’re seeing a pop up all over the place thanking a building, an iconic building for seeing me right, you see me? So, things are shifting. We’re raising like the frequency of this, and it’s only going to benefit to your point in the future generations, I hope.
Eloise Drane 33:07
Yes, exactly. Andrea, thank you so much for being on the show with me today and sharing your experience and for all the things that you are doing. And obviously we’ll be sure to have the information for Pregnantish on show notes. So, thank you!
Andrea Syrtash 33:24
Perfect, thanks so much for having me. It’s great. Great to be here.
Eloise Drane 33:30
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Until then, remember, “love has no limits – neither should parenthood.”
